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 Post subject: Re: Huckabee on Jon Stewart Daily Show WED at 11 ET
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Stewart has mastered the art of saying very arrogant things but delivering them in a comical and mild tone.

A great response to his bit about conservative alternative institutions getting things wrong (note the arrogance: conservatives need liberal editors/censors!) and misinforming the public would be to note that polling indicates that most college graduates think the phrase "the separation of church and state" is actually in the constitution! Misinformation - especially misinformation via the omission of inconvenient information - is what we receive from the institutions Stewart dogmatically believes are neutral and quality. Polls like the one I mentioned demonstrate that.

Also, Stewart seemed to indicate that the individual states' established churches went away with the Articles. Of course, he's wrong as states retained official state churches well into the 19th century. It was only in 1947 that the SCOTUS for whatever reason applied disestablishment in the 1st amendment not only against Congress but the states as well (incorporation). Either way, this is a distraction from the larger point that separation of church and state as the left understands it (strict separationism) has nothing to do with the Constitution. That's why the SCOTUS has more recently moved away from that completely untenable idea (it was basically doctrine in the 60s), more in the direction of a doctrine of pluralism: gov't can interact with religious org.s etc, it simply can't prefer one denomination or religion over another.

That being said, that is also a distraction from the larger point of our Christian heritage. It informed all the founders, it informed all the people who informed our founders, and to pretend otherwise is the true selective word/quote searching that Stewart accused Gov. Huckabee of. After Jefferson wrote that letter to the Danbury Baptists that Huckabee mentioned, he (Jefferson) went down to the House chamber for a Christian religious service that was being held there. And that's Jefferson, the most "secular" of all the prominent founders.

Maybe you can tell that this subject is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Huckabee on Jon Stewart Daily Show WED at 11 ET
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:43 am 
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You are wonderfully well informed! What source or sources have you been using to pick this up? David Barton?

Sadly, with the time that I have spent in the trenches on the internet (esp when it comes to "Dawkins' Disciples"), I have no doubt that the point about Jefferson going to a religious service would simply be dismissed as some type of political diplomacy rather than authentic spirituality. :roll: Still, it is worth noting for the remnant of rational people still lurking out there! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Huckabee on Jon Stewart Daily Show WED at 11 ET
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:04 am 
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No, not Barton. I had a long research project in college that required me to explore church/state issues, especially what the 1st amendment means.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Danbury Baptists/Jefferson letter story I found in Bill Bennett's American history book, "America: the Last Best Hope." I recommend his stuff.

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"The recovery of moral control and the return to spiritual order have become the indispensable conditions of human survival. But they can be achieved only by a profound change in the spirit of modern civilization. This does not mean a new religion or a new culture but a movement of spiritual reintegration which would restore that vital relation between religion and culture which has existed at every stage and on every level of human development." - Christopher Dawson


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 Post subject: Re: Huckabee on Jon Stewart Daily Show WED at 11 ET
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:16 am 
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Will check it out - thanks! Have you read any of Barton's stuff? Do you have an opinion about him per Stewart's?


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